<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Macross: War in a Material World</title>
	<atom:link href="http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/</link>
	<description>a web journal on Japan and elsewhere</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 12:00:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan W.</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1178</guid>
		<description>Impressive stuff!  What synchronicity... I was just discussing these very subjects with my roommate recently, arguing that Macross served well as a metaphor for Japan&#039;s pop-cultural counterattack through the manga, anime, and game &quot;invasion&quot; of the West (and was later also expanded upon in some ways in the last portion of Otaku no Video). And in similar synch with the comments posted, I also had posted elsewhere about the history of &quot;moe&quot; that predates the term--proto-moe as one poster put it here--and can be seen quite clearly in Cutey Honey, Matsumoto Leiji&#039;s elegant females, Urusei Yatsura (including proto-taku Megane!), the bridge bunnies and Minmay of Macross, the 2D complexes of fans in the early 80&#039;s, and so on.  I would argue that &quot;moe&quot; most closely resembles the English word &quot;charming&quot; in meaning (it can even be used by fujoushi regarding male characters), and much of anime/manga&#039;s inherently embedded appeal has been &quot;moe&quot; at its core since the days of Tezuka and perhaps even before (looking at pre-war manga and such)!

Regarding Urusei Yatsura&#039;s self-reflexive nature, I remember a panel I attended given by Yamazaki Kazuo, who directed the third and fourth movies (and later Five Star Stories, Slayers, and Please Save My Earth), and in repsonse to one question about the fourth movie, he mentioned that part of the point of the film was that by then some fans had become so Lum-obsessed, he wanted to express what life might be like--and that it might in fact (shudder) be more worth living--if they removed her from the equation entirely!  

It will be interesting to see what the new upcoming high-budgeted Macross Frontier series does with the franchise and whether it reflects the current era of &quot;deculture&quot; and its future in a similar manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impressive stuff!  What synchronicity&#8230; I was just discussing these very subjects with my roommate recently, arguing that Macross served well as a metaphor for Japan&#8217;s pop-cultural counterattack through the manga, anime, and game &#8220;invasion&#8221; of the West (and was later also expanded upon in some ways in the last portion of Otaku no Video). And in similar synch with the comments posted, I also had posted elsewhere about the history of &#8220;moe&#8221; that predates the term&#8211;proto-moe as one poster put it here&#8211;and can be seen quite clearly in Cutey Honey, Matsumoto Leiji&#8217;s elegant females, Urusei Yatsura (including proto-taku Megane!), the bridge bunnies and Minmay of Macross, the 2D complexes of fans in the early 80&#8242;s, and so on.  I would argue that &#8220;moe&#8221; most closely resembles the English word &#8220;charming&#8221; in meaning (it can even be used by fujoushi regarding male characters), and much of anime/manga&#8217;s inherently embedded appeal has been &#8220;moe&#8221; at its core since the days of Tezuka and perhaps even before (looking at pre-war manga and such)!</p>
<p>Regarding Urusei Yatsura&#8217;s self-reflexive nature, I remember a panel I attended given by Yamazaki Kazuo, who directed the third and fourth movies (and later Five Star Stories, Slayers, and Please Save My Earth), and in repsonse to one question about the fourth movie, he mentioned that part of the point of the film was that by then some fans had become so Lum-obsessed, he wanted to express what life might be like&#8211;and that it might in fact (shudder) be more worth living&#8211;if they removed her from the equation entirely!  </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see what the new upcoming high-budgeted Macross Frontier series does with the franchise and whether it reflects the current era of &#8220;deculture&#8221; and its future in a similar manner.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: skchai</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>skchai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>I agree with what Marxie said about Macross being a seminal event in establishing otakuism as a well-defined lifestyle niche.  However, it also helped to cement the link between otaku and idolization in a way that didn&#039;t exist before and presages the direction the idol industry has gone in the 2000s.  

However, arguably, up to the 1980s (including  Seiko, the class of 1982, and Onyanoko), idols functioned primarily as surrogate companions for the (involuntarily) socially isolated products of the juku system up to the bubble era, with the emphasis - cemented in their TV talk appearances - of having distinct, definable personalities, whether this was &quot;real&quot; or artifice.  And it was noticable that at this time female idols had large female fanbases.

Minmei was at a different level, a virtual idol who could be manipulated from episode to movie to have whatever persona was demanded by the viewer.  She presaged the idea of the &quot;individual user-specified&quot; idol, whether it be an virtual idol, the personality-neutralized gurabia idol, or the personality-on-demand cosplay hostess.  And with little limit on their ability to impose weird otakuish fantasy on idols, it is easy to understand how the fan base has move increasingly towards not-to-young-anymore men who prefer volunatary social isolation to the pains of face-to-face relationships. 

Given this, it is not surprising that Iijima Mari felt that Minmei ruined her music career, even as the role accounted for her greatest commercial success.  She seems to have eventually have grudgingly come to terms with her typecasting; she apparently did the English voiceover for the 2006 dubbed version of the series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what Marxie said about Macross being a seminal event in establishing otakuism as a well-defined lifestyle niche.  However, it also helped to cement the link between otaku and idolization in a way that didn&#8217;t exist before and presages the direction the idol industry has gone in the 2000s.  </p>
<p>However, arguably, up to the 1980s (including  Seiko, the class of 1982, and Onyanoko), idols functioned primarily as surrogate companions for the (involuntarily) socially isolated products of the juku system up to the bubble era, with the emphasis &#8211; cemented in their TV talk appearances &#8211; of having distinct, definable personalities, whether this was &#8220;real&#8221; or artifice.  And it was noticable that at this time female idols had large female fanbases.</p>
<p>Minmei was at a different level, a virtual idol who could be manipulated from episode to movie to have whatever persona was demanded by the viewer.  She presaged the idea of the &#8220;individual user-specified&#8221; idol, whether it be an virtual idol, the personality-neutralized gurabia idol, or the personality-on-demand cosplay hostess.  And with little limit on their ability to impose weird otakuish fantasy on idols, it is easy to understand how the fan base has move increasingly towards not-to-young-anymore men who prefer volunatary social isolation to the pains of face-to-face relationships. </p>
<p>Given this, it is not surprising that Iijima Mari felt that Minmei ruined her music career, even as the role accounted for her greatest commercial success.  She seems to have eventually have grudgingly come to terms with her typecasting; she apparently did the English voiceover for the 2006 dubbed version of the series.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1150</guid>
		<description>Otaku=Zentradi

New People(新人類）=Terran in Macross city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otaku=Zentradi</p>
<p>New People(新人類）=Terran in Macross city.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1149</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;社会そのものが一つのフィクション（物語）であるという立場をとる。&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;Taking the position that society itself is a fiction&quot; sounds suspiciously like the story to one of Macross&#039; successors, the Matrix-esque direct-to-video anime &quot;Megazone 23.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>社会そのものが一つのフィクション（物語）であるという立場をとる。</i></p>
<p>&#8220;Taking the position that society itself is a fiction&#8221; sounds suspiciously like the story to one of Macross&#8217; successors, the Matrix-esque direct-to-video anime &#8220;Megazone 23.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 05:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think they’d unconciously look towards the Imperial era rather than Soviets.&quot;

That&#039;s probably true in case of Miyazaki Hayao&#039;s(Born in 1941)generation.
For example,Miyazaki is pretty much hard core left which is pretty common among the intellectuals of his generation.
He was union secretary when he was in Toei and wrote essay about condemining American cultural imperialism -Disney,that is.
His all time best anime is Soviet film &quot;Snow queen&quot; and his late 70&#039;s anime &quot;Future Boy Conan&quot; has many Fourier-style utopia.

In that anime magazine discussion with Macross director Kawamori Shouji(Born in 1960),Miyzaki was pretty frustrated with Kawamori&#039;s nonchalant view on war et al.

Kawamori&#039;s generation who were born in the 60&#039;s and became adults in the bubble days of 80&#039;s were called by media as &quot;新人類”

Wiki says
&quot;成熟した成人として、社会を構成する一員の自覚と責任を引き受けることを拒否し、社会そのものが一つのフィクション（物語）であるという立場をとる。現実から逃避してフィクションに埋没してゆくオタクとは対極にあるとみなされた。オタクが仮想現実と現実を峻別して人生の目的として仮想現実世界を選択することに対し、新人類は情報化社会によって現実世界のほうが仮想現実化し、現実社会で生きるとは情報化された現実を情報処理することであると唱え、それをさまざまな哲学的命題を用いて理論づけようとした。

音楽でもテクノポップの流行など、社会的にも無機質な変容が感じられた時代に、高尚な哲学や思想を語ることも、一種のファッションとしての地位を得た。

しかし、評論家の竹熊健太郎は、オタクと新人類は同一のものであり、「同じ人格類型のバリエーション」であると唱えている。

オタクも新人類も情報の受け手である消費者を絶対視し、全ての情報は消費者の解釈と位置づけがその意味を決めるのであって、情報の送り手が込めた価値観やメッセージ（作家性）を軽視ないし無視した。新人類は主に哲学や思想・アイドルを語り、それを「知と戯れる」と称したが、実際のところ芸能雑誌やテレビ画面を通じて提供される情報で構築されるアイドルという虚構に萌えるのと、最初からアニメという情報によって構成される戦闘美少女に萌えるオタクは、ほとんど変わるところがない。&quot;

I pretty much doubt that Kawamori had either intentionally or unintentionally added any particular political nor historical meanings in Macross. 
The cold-war-as-the-metapher was no more than the plot behicle to him.

But ofcourse,there could be some Jungian &quot;collective unconscious&quot;at work here....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think they’d unconciously look towards the Imperial era rather than Soviets.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s probably true in case of Miyazaki Hayao&#8217;s(Born in 1941)generation.<br />
For example,Miyazaki is pretty much hard core left which is pretty common among the intellectuals of his generation.<br />
He was union secretary when he was in Toei and wrote essay about condemining American cultural imperialism -Disney,that is.<br />
His all time best anime is Soviet film &#8220;Snow queen&#8221; and his late 70&#8242;s anime &#8220;Future Boy Conan&#8221; has many Fourier-style utopia.</p>
<p>In that anime magazine discussion with Macross director Kawamori Shouji(Born in 1960),Miyzaki was pretty frustrated with Kawamori&#8217;s nonchalant view on war et al.</p>
<p>Kawamori&#8217;s generation who were born in the 60&#8242;s and became adults in the bubble days of 80&#8242;s were called by media as &#8220;新人類”</p>
<p>Wiki says<br />
&#8220;成熟した成人として、社会を構成する一員の自覚と責任を引き受けることを拒否し、社会そのものが一つのフィクション（物語）であるという立場をとる。現実から逃避してフィクションに埋没してゆくオタクとは対極にあるとみなされた。オタクが仮想現実と現実を峻別して人生の目的として仮想現実世界を選択することに対し、新人類は情報化社会によって現実世界のほうが仮想現実化し、現実社会で生きるとは情報化された現実を情報処理することであると唱え、それをさまざまな哲学的命題を用いて理論づけようとした。</p>
<p>音楽でもテクノポップの流行など、社会的にも無機質な変容が感じられた時代に、高尚な哲学や思想を語ることも、一種のファッションとしての地位を得た。</p>
<p>しかし、評論家の竹熊健太郎は、オタクと新人類は同一のものであり、「同じ人格類型のバリエーション」であると唱えている。</p>
<p>オタクも新人類も情報の受け手である消費者を絶対視し、全ての情報は消費者の解釈と位置づけがその意味を決めるのであって、情報の送り手が込めた価値観やメッセージ（作家性）を軽視ないし無視した。新人類は主に哲学や思想・アイドルを語り、それを「知と戯れる」と称したが、実際のところ芸能雑誌やテレビ画面を通じて提供される情報で構築されるアイドルという虚構に萌えるのと、最初からアニメという情報によって構成される戦闘美少女に萌えるオタクは、ほとんど変わるところがない。&#8221;</p>
<p>I pretty much doubt that Kawamori had either intentionally or unintentionally added any particular political nor historical meanings in Macross.<br />
The cold-war-as-the-metapher was no more than the plot behicle to him.</p>
<p>But ofcourse,there could be some Jungian &#8220;collective unconscious&#8221;at work here&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: W. David MARX</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1144</link>
		<dc:creator>W. David MARX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1144</guid>
		<description>I had another friend also claim Macross was a Cold War allegory, but I have to wonder: did the Japanese actually see the Soviets as bad guys enough to care about the Cold War and model a whole series after the conflict? The Japanese Left was pretty-solidly Soviet Bloc until the mid-70s, and I am guessing a lot of that sentiment stayed around. The Cold War cast a shadow on Japan, but I don&#039;t think Japan felt solidly as part of the capitalist &quot;good guys.&quot; If Japanese creators needed a role model for over-militaristic peoples, I think they&#039;d unconciously look towards the Imperial era rather than Soviets.

Aceface?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had another friend also claim Macross was a Cold War allegory, but I have to wonder: did the Japanese actually see the Soviets as bad guys enough to care about the Cold War and model a whole series after the conflict? The Japanese Left was pretty-solidly Soviet Bloc until the mid-70s, and I am guessing a lot of that sentiment stayed around. The Cold War cast a shadow on Japan, but I don&#8217;t think Japan felt solidly as part of the capitalist &#8220;good guys.&#8221; If Japanese creators needed a role model for over-militaristic peoples, I think they&#8217;d unconciously look towards the Imperial era rather than Soviets.</p>
<p>Aceface?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris S</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1143</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1143</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think the series is closer to a Cold War allegory:

http://anothersmith.blogspot.com/2008/02/macross-as-allegory.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think the series is closer to a Cold War allegory:</p>
<p><a href="http://anothersmith.blogspot.com/2008/02/macross-as-allegory.html" rel="nofollow">http://anothersmith.blogspot.com/2008/02/macross-as-allegory.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Macias</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1140</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Macias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1140</guid>
		<description>Anyone who goes to Mandarake to marvel at the kaijyu kits can definitely hang with the OTACKERS...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who goes to Mandarake to marvel at the kaijyu kits can definitely hang with the OTACKERS&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>Our reputation precedes us, it seems. Next thing you know we&#039;ll be showing up in the tabloids! Feel free to come up and say &quot;hi&quot; next time! I don&#039;t bite... usually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our reputation precedes us, it seems. Next thing you know we&#8217;ll be showing up in the tabloids! Feel free to come up and say &#8220;hi&#8221; next time! I don&#8217;t bite&#8230; usually.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/comment-page-1/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 03:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neojaponisme.com/2008/02/12/macross-war-in-a-material-world/#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>&quot;Valkyrie toys sold by sponsor Takatoku, were actually an undisputed worldwide phenomenon. They were incredibly successful, with over a million and a quarter of them sold across the globe. &quot;

You know,I shouldn&#039;t have said anything about robot toys when you are around...

Although We&#039;ve never met,but I saw you in Shibuya&#039;s Mandarake with Patrick Macias checking Cho-Gokin last year.(I think it was last year).

I was standing right next to you gazing at Anguiras garage kit in the case.
I did recognized Macias instantly because I&#039;m a keen reader of his blog from almost the day he arrived to Japan,but I didn&#039;t know who you were.I found out about your identity from Macias&#039;s blog.(Scary these internet,isn&#039;t it.)

I was forgetting I read in somewhere either yours or Macias&#039;s(or somebody else&#039;s)essay that U.S naval aviators in Yokosuka bought Valkyrie as souvenior to their kids back home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Valkyrie toys sold by sponsor Takatoku, were actually an undisputed worldwide phenomenon. They were incredibly successful, with over a million and a quarter of them sold across the globe. &#8221;</p>
<p>You know,I shouldn&#8217;t have said anything about robot toys when you are around&#8230;</p>
<p>Although We&#8217;ve never met,but I saw you in Shibuya&#8217;s Mandarake with Patrick Macias checking Cho-Gokin last year.(I think it was last year).</p>
<p>I was standing right next to you gazing at Anguiras garage kit in the case.<br />
I did recognized Macias instantly because I&#8217;m a keen reader of his blog from almost the day he arrived to Japan,but I didn&#8217;t know who you were.I found out about your identity from Macias&#8217;s blog.(Scary these internet,isn&#8217;t it.)</p>
<p>I was forgetting I read in somewhere either yours or Macias&#8217;s(or somebody else&#8217;s)essay that U.S naval aviators in Yokosuka bought Valkyrie as souvenior to their kids back home.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

