Comments on: Sunday Supplement: Kaminazuki http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/ a web journal on Japan and elsewhere Wed, 16 May 2012 12:00:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: spirulina http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-19073 spirulina Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:19:54 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-19073 Interesting post, i bookmarked your blog, best regards Interesting post, i bookmarked your blog, best regards

]]> By: Ryan http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18964 Ryan Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:03:17 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18964 Hi Selena (and Matt). Apparently one god remains at home in this tenth month of the lunar calendar-- the binbōgami, or "genius/god of poverty." Here's a kyōka poem from the 1783 collection "Thousand Centuries of Kyōka" that mentions the kannazuki month. いつはりのある世なりけり神無月 貧乏神は身をもはなれぬ. (万歳狂歌集, Part 6, 1783) My rough translation: Oh, world filled with deceit: Though it's the Kannazuki month, the god of poverty won’t let me alone. Hi Selena (and Matt).

Apparently one god remains at home in this tenth month of the lunar calendar– the binbōgami, or “genius/god of poverty.” Here’s a kyōka poem from the 1783 collection “Thousand Centuries of Kyōka” that mentions the kannazuki month.

いつはりのある世なりけり神無月 貧乏神は身をもはなれぬ. (万歳狂歌集, Part 6, 1783)

My rough translation:

Oh, world filled with deceit: Though it’s the Kannazuki month, the god of poverty won’t let me alone.

]]> By: Matt TREYVAUD http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18886 Matt TREYVAUD Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:08:33 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18886 <a href="http://www.inf.edu.yamaguchi-u.ac.jp/MANYOU/manyou_kensaku.html" rel="nofollow">This</a> is the site I always use to search the 'shu (as we called it growing up tough on the street). I don't know exactly when the kanji made the scene but I think they're in the Genji Monogatari at least. This is the site I always use to search the ‘shu (as we called it growing up tough on the street). I don’t know exactly when the kanji made the scene but I think they’re in the Genji Monogatari at least.

]]> By: selena http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18879 selena Mon, 13 Oct 2008 04:35:34 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18879 hi matt, interesting point, thanks. i admit that my man'yoshu is a little rusty - haven't looked at it since school. however, between the time of collecting and putting down the texts (700-something) and early heian (late 700s or so), the current wisdom says that the scholars of the time had forgotten the variant to the point of reversing the meaning entirely? sloppy. i'd be interested to check out some of the poems that include the early reading, especially if they provide any context clues. hi matt,
interesting point, thanks. i admit that my man’yoshu is a little rusty – haven’t looked at it since school. however, between the time of collecting and putting down the texts (700-something) and early heian (late 700s or so), the current wisdom says that the scholars of the time had forgotten the variant to the point of reversing the meaning entirely? sloppy. i’d be interested to check out some of the poems that include the early reading, especially if they provide any context clues.

]]> By: Matt TREYVAUD http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18870 Matt TREYVAUD Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:59:41 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18870 I think the earliest it appears in writing is in the Man'yoshu, and there it's always 十月, to be pronounced かむなづき. Presumably by the time they got around to assigning the kanji 神無月 (had to be Heian or earlier), everyone had forgotten that /na/ was a kind of /no/ (because whatever forces were driving that variant had vanished by then), so they just picked the kanji that seemed most likely. There's no smoking scroll or anything, but since there are other words showing the same pattern (minato = 水の戸, manako = 目の子, etc.) and none (?) that include a /na(i)/ used like that, that's the current best guess. But, meh. Words mean exactly what the population who use them think they do. If people have been understanding it as "month of no gods" for a thousand years, that's as real as any other part of Japanese culture. The rest is just historical curiosity. Didn't mean to derail! I think the earliest it appears in writing is in the Man’yoshu, and there it’s always 十月, to be pronounced かむなづき. Presumably by the time they got around to assigning the kanji 神無月 (had to be Heian or earlier), everyone had forgotten that /na/ was a kind of /no/ (because whatever forces were driving that variant had vanished by then), so they just picked the kanji that seemed most likely.

There’s no smoking scroll or anything, but since there are other words showing the same pattern (minato = 水の戸, manako = 目の子, etc.) and none (?) that include a /na(i)/ used like that, that’s the current best guess.

But, meh. Words mean exactly what the population who use them think they do. If people have been understanding it as “month of no gods” for a thousand years, that’s as real as any other part of Japanese culture. The rest is just historical curiosity. Didn’t mean to derail!

]]> By: selena http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18867 selena Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:23:24 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18867 hi matt, did they also change the character 無 when they changed the meaning? and if so, i'm curious to know how they wrote it. hi matt,

did they also change the character 無 when they changed the meaning? and if so, i’m curious to know how they wrote it.

]]> By: Matt TREYVAUD http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/comment-page-1/#comment-18866 Matt TREYVAUD Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:06:55 +0000 http://neojaponisme.com/2008/10/12/sunday-supplement-%e7%a5%9e%e7%84%a1%e6%9c%88/#comment-18866 Fun fact: The word "Kaminazuki" originally meant month OF gods (the /na/ was a vowel-bent variant of /no/). Same goes for Minazuki (month of water). No-one remembers or cares any more, though... and why should they, when the new story is this good? Fun fact: The word “Kaminazuki” originally meant month OF gods (the /na/ was a vowel-bent variant of /no/). Same goes for Minazuki (month of water). No-one remembers or cares any more, though… and why should they, when the new story is this good?

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