Kawakami extensively interviewed a wide range of “normal” Japanese women (and one not-so-normal Japanese male “sex volunteer”) and then transformed these conversations into engaging narratives. The portraits range from young bar-owner Chami — who endures chronic mutual cheating, an abortion, and the death of her biker boyfriend — to the 58-year old Mitsuko — a big fan of Korean male celebrities who only recently lost her virginity. Some of the protagonists’ marriages work out and some do not: Fumiko has an affair while contemplating a divorce from her workaholic husband, while Shoko manages to find happiness as the wife to a Shinto priest. Although not a specific theme, adultery ends up playing a large part in most of the stories. Both landowning princess Emi and housewife Misa are forced to personally confront their husbands’ mistress in order to restore the family unit.

Kawakami’s work attempts to more realistically portray the institutions of love and marriage in Japan through offering a worms-eye view of how actual women interact within their communities, families, and society at-large. In this interview, we discuss recent trends in Japanese socio-sexual life and the structural reasons for the specific cultural patterns in Japan.

No, no. Tell me why you think they are unhappy.

Maybe “unhappy” is too strong of a word. But the women are mostly divorced, or their marriages have failed, or they are estranged from their husbands within the marriage. The story about the Shinto priest’s wife is a bit happier, but for most of these women, the marriages or relationships did not work out or are not working out.

It was never my intention to show that Japanese women are unhappy. If you asked American women, how many of them would say they are really happy in a relationship? Less than half? Ask any woman. I don’t think it’s just Japan. I’ve never done any research but how many of them would say, “I’m really happy”?

But that may not have anything to do with them being a man or a woman. It’s just the nature of relationships. There may be lots of people who are happy when thinking about work or other personal relationships. But I think there are only a handful of people who would say they are super lovey-dovey in their relationships. I don’t think everyone’s happy, but I didn’t set out to capture everyone being unhappy.

Even if they are not “unhappy,” there was definitely a feeling of how the system of marriage in Japan may not be best serving Japanese women.

I lived in Canada and had lots of friends from lots of countries. I have watched lots of different couples over time. And if you just take the idea of the “marriage system” very broadly, the Japanese system is certainly not very open. Compared to the West, marriage has a very large impact on a woman’s lifestyle. Getting married creates extremely high expectations, and the marriage system ends up constricting Japanese women. However, this is not just true for women — I think men are also bound by the marriage system. In Japan, the couple is not bound just by love, but an economic bind between two families.

But compared to the past, I would guess that almost all Japanese men and women choose their marriage partners through love now — and not from the perspective of inter-family relations. And even if marriage is eventually reduced to economic ties or just acting out the roles of family, that’s not unique to Japan. So why is there more social pressure in Japan on those married than seen in other countries, even if the man and the woman are choosing partners through “love”?

The employment system in Japan is still very inconvenient for women. If you look at the shape of female employment — and this is not just Japan, but also Korea — the statistics show an M-shape. Around 18-22, they start working, and then at 35-39, employment drops off. Once women finish raising their children and are in their 40s, they come back to work. Basically, many women are dropped by the employment system when they raise their children.

It’s just too difficult for women to tend to their children while they work. A lot of companies say they want to create nurseries, but the reality is that women have to pursue their careers just like men, and on top of that, do housework. This would be hard even in America or Canada. Some women may try it, but there’s still a glass ceiling. There is still a wage gap. If you ask, who will bring home the bacon in the next ten years, the answer is men.

Compared to the United States, I think there are still lots of women in Japan who must rely on their husbands even if they continue to work after childbirth or become a full-time mother. So that’s one economic reason: there is a glass ceiling for women and the situation is not particularly friendly to women.

Are there not also political reasons behind these economic factors?

I started working in 1987. That was the first year they implemented the Equal Employment Opportunity Law (男女雇用機会均等法). I started working at a Japanese newspaper. It was the first time the newspaper had recruited over five females in one hundred years. But why did they pass that law at the time? It was because the Japanese economy has just entered into the Bubble and there was going to be a labor shortage unless companies started to employ women. So, it’s not like politicians just suddenly decided to start being friendly to women. There was a specific labor situation in Japan.

A lot of women, including me, were employed during this time, but those who had survived the “Lost Decade” from the early 1990s endured a lot of hardship. Even though companies at the time decided to employ women as much as possible, the government didn’t do anything for them once the economy got weakened. In the ‘90s, companies were forced to start laying-off men, so they didn’t understand why they had to support these new women employees. As hard as women worked during those years, they got little support from their companies nor the government. But thanks to those particular women who struggled at that time, working condition for women have improved a lot.

I think that women’s position will grow stronger from here on out, but there are still inconsistencies in the policy. In general, most would agree that women should be promoted, but is that message being consistently applied? When an actual economic downturn came, the first to be fired were women and older aged men.

There are fewer jobs these days that put employees on a clear path to the middle class. How does that impact how women choose their husbands?

For the generation before the people now, the father would work all the time and protect his family. It was a generation of work, work, work. But now they wonder, can my husband really attain that suburban dream of the husband going to work, buying a house in the suburbs, having two kids and two dogs? Since the economic circumstances aren’t the same as before, the husband is no longer able to support the family in the same way. As much as the husband wants to support his family, there is going to be an expectation gap now.

Japanese men’s expectations about marriage do not seem to have changed in 100 years. They are the breadwinners, so they don’t need to help out with the housework or child-rearing. But don’t women now want their husbands to help out more? Since they are marrying for love, they have much higher expectations than before. They see the ideals of the West and notice that nothing has changed in Japan in this regard. Is there not a real expectations problem at the heart of Japanese marriages?

If you look at young men these days, I think they’ve become better about helping around the house. However, I think men are also in a pitiful situation. For example, they can’t go home at 5 p.m. like in the West. As hard as they work, they have to go out after work with their bosses. If everyone is working until 10, they can’t just go home at 5 because they have a wife. Work hours are long. However much men want to commit to helping out at home, they just can’t do it. Awareness may not have changed, but in order for men to actually be able to help at home, broader social support is necessary.

There is still not enough awareness about these issues, and the system has not changed enough. So it’s not just women who are caught between a rock and a hard place.

A couple will tend to see themselves as equals before getting married. But suddenly, when the wife is left to carry around the child, she notices the inequality. Men of course also know things were more equal, so they want to do something to help, but their jobs don’t let them. So you can’t say that men alone are the reason.

Do women who work at home want to have jobs?

From what I have heard, women wish to come into their own and contribute to society as well. But they have stability with their husbands. They want to do a fun and meaningful job, even if it doesn’t earn much money. But the real world is not so easy. I talk to women who don’t work, and they say they want to work. But, there is a big gap. These are not people who have worked hard to break through, so they are jealous of those who have worked outside the home. It looks to them like freedom. But that’s only because they have little experience in the workforce. There is a price to be paid for freedom, but they don’t see that. They have no idea what it is really like to work. This may sound rude, but there are lots of people who say things like, “Wow. It must be so freeing to work like that.” On the opposite, the single women in their 40s who have worked all this time all say, “I want to get married, I want to have my husband support me.”

But they have no experience of knowing whether they can put up with being in the home, taking care of children, caring for the sick and old, and putting up with in-laws who may not be very nice. Being in the home is also really hard. They don’t see that and just think it will be fine if they get married. So it’s a very hard thing to balance.

However, I have seen women in their 30s, who worked hard through the Lost Decade, and are getting better in balancing the two. But I think there is a big gap between individual experiences.

In the book, adultery plays a very big part in almost everyone’s life. Obviously, adultery is universal, but it’s often said that Japan lacks a strict sexual morality that would create simple guidance for this issue. But even if we ignore morals or ethics, adultery does have a big influence on Japanese marriages in a structural way. It obviously causes emotional pain to the women, for starts. In the book, this is often a cause for the marriage to fall apart. Decades ago, Japanese men had more freedom to have quiet affairs, and this principle still seems to remain.

There is a double standard. There’s a term 「浮気は男の甲斐性」 — like, cheating is a symbol of a man’s wealth. So adultery on the part of men is not a good thing, but there’s nothing you can do about it. What Japanese women say a lot, is something like, “It’s probably okay as long as it’s a professional woman. If it’s a prostitute it’s okay — as long as I don’t know about it. But if it’s somebody else and he actually falls in love, then that’s a problem.” The physical is different from emotional attachment, so if it’s just physical, it’s fine. There are many people who told me this.

But it’s not like these rules about “men can cheat but women can’t” or “I guess I have to put up with it” were decided democratically by women. They were just told to put up with it.

Yes, that’s probably true. Until 1947, it was technically illegal for women to cheat on their husbands but it was not illegal for married men to cheat on their wives. Both the women — and the men who were having affairs with these women — were held legally responsible. This is because the woman belonged to the husband — as property — so adultery with a married women was considered as if this property was violated. So I think this idea has a legacy: even if you are cheated on, you have to put up with it.

Is there not an unavoidable psychological issue that most Japanese men cease to see their wives as women after they give birth to children?

Many Japanese men say that if their wives have children they are no longer lovers: they are mothers. In Japan, there are only mothers or lovers. Nothing in-between. In a way, wives with children become special because they are given a special status beyond lovers. But the physical relationship often gets neglected.

If you go back to the employment issues we were talking about, after a family has children, the father may work around two hours away from home and he may not come back home until midnight. So he has a life outside of their house, but the wives also have their own lives. The woman’s life has a total radius of 3km with the kids’ school in the middle. Her life is established there, right? And she won’t probably go beyond that 3km unless she really needs to.

After many years of this lifestyle, the married couple have nothing in common. She is focused on daily activities — PTA, neighbors, school — while he is totally committed to his work. Even if they both think family is very important, they forget how to do things together. Maybe on the weekends they will go out together as family but that’s about it. It gets very difficult for them to actually talk together and understand each other.

They had been lovers, so they had totally understood each other at one point, but by the time the child is ten, they feel a ten-year gap between them. The wife and husband have spent ten years in different worlds, and to be as passionate and loving as before is very difficult. If the woman works, it’s even more difficult. The wife becomes even more uptight. She has to work so many hours at her job and also do all these things at home. So neither parent has any time, and they just barely pass each other everyday.

Employment is just taking too much time. I think there is no longer any room for the family to develop their life as a family.

Most of Japan’s social problems seem to be byproducts of the overly long labor hours.

For example, if you come home at 8, you eat with your child, put them in the bath, and by the time they go to bed, it’s 10. So the couple has two hours to talk — between 10 and 12. However, if the husband comes home at 12, it’s impossible, right? And if this continues for a long time, the married couple just becomes more and more separated.

Today kids are very busy too. They go to juku (Japanese cram schools with classes held after school or at night) and then swimming lessons or whatever. Kids’ sleeping time is also decreasing. Families are being constrained time-wise and cannot function as a family.

I think the communication problem for families is born from this time problem. But if you just took at the communication problem alone, even if there is time, families have become really bad at communicating.

Japanese men often talk about how they may not express their feelings through words, but they use a kind of tacit communication. What exactly are they doing if they are not specifically speaking their feelings to their wives and families with verbal means?

I think they have a different communication style. Their wives are theirs, so to a certain degree, they recognize that it’s natural that their wives already understand. In Japan, there’s an expression 「男は背中でものを言う」— “Men speak with their backs.” They can’t say anything with their mouths. It is a Japanese aesthetic thing to show your attitude with action. Just acting with your mouth is not masculine. So, even if you don’t say it, the other person should understand. But actually, if they don’t say it verbally, no one understands.

They come home, don’t say anything, so the wife and the husband have no idea what the other is thinking. While I was interviewing women for this book, I often heard them complain about their husbands. When I ask, “Why don’t you say that to your husband?” they would simply answer, “Oh, it’s nothing I would need to actually say” or “It’s not their fault either.” The assumption is that even they don’t say it, the partner will still understand, but that is a flawed assumption.

Even if Japanese divorce rates are rising, they are relatively low compared to other countries. Is this proof that Japanese marriages actually work better?

Aren’t Japanese people just better at putting up with it? Not just women, but men. There is a word「仮面夫婦」 (literally, “masked marriage,” meaning a couple who only go through the motions of being husband and wife.)

People often say in Japanese, “Well, it’s because we have a ’masked marriage.’” Then, others may reply by saying, “Oh, we are too.” People are okay with the fact that they only have relations as these masks. They are not particularly embarrassed by it

I found it odd in the book that there are multiple stories of Japanese women easily calling up the women who are having an affair with their husbands and talking to them directly.

These days, wives will sue the other woman. If your husband cheats on you, you then sue the woman on the grounds of compensation for psychological damage. Even though it’s a problem between the husband and the wife, the other woman will have to pay.

Why does the other woman — and not the husband — have to take all legal responsibility for the cheating?

The wife can put up with the fact that she has been cheated on, because she believes, or tries to believe, that it’s just men’s nature. So the wife will tell the husband, “I will negotiate this for you.” It becomes a discussion of woman-to-woman. Instead of trying to improve the marital relationship, the idea is to pull the family together.

If the relationship is the problem, you just talk to the husband, right? But the woman’s aims do not include the relationship, but are to maintain the marriage, and thus, the family. So the wife needs to get rid of what’s getting in the way of things. If the other woman goes away, problem solved. Certainly the wife also tells the husband he’s been bad, and he may apologize. “Sorry, I was bad. Forgive me.” And he will say to the woman, “Since he has apologized, you also should do us a favor and go away. Your relation with my husband was just physical.” This is how the wife can cut out the other woman and let her know that the problem does not involve her. If you cast her away like that, of course she’ll be hurt. Telling her that her relationship with the husband was only physical is poking her where it most hurts. Obviously, the other woman doesn’t want to realize that.

Does the idea of a physical relationship with another woman not hurt the wife’s feelings?

She tries to make it so it doesn’t hurt her.

So she has to put up with it?

One other important thing is that sex is not seen as a very “pretty” thing in Japan. Your heart is purer than the physical relationship. As a married couple, your hearts are bound together, but your physical relationship is on a lower plane.

Physical relations are not a symbol of a deeper relationship?

Well, if you think about what I said just now, that idea is really just an excuse for men. But since the husband and wife are still “family,” this is the natural response, no? “Because we are family, we love each other and that’s not open for argument.” This kind of familial love is not open for argument. The Japanese concept of love is not the same as the word “love” in English. It’s the bond of family.

But it’s not like the idea of Western romantic love hasn’t also gotten mixed in there.

Yes, so Japanese women now also cheat on their partners. And there are women who follow Johnny’s Jimusho talent or Yon-sama as a way to satisfy themselves with a kind of ersatz love. There are women who fall in love and then cheat on their loves, and there are people who delude themselves with fake love. They are all lonely in their hearts. In their heads, they know they have the bonds of family and have lots of pride. But they don’t have anything in reality.

In your experience, have you talked to people who patronize host clubs? What kind of people go?

Rich, I guess. Normal women can’t go since they can’t pay for it.

Lately, the host has been somewhat legitimized in mainstream society. Is there an active effort to make hosts more acceptable?

Those kinds of bars are respected to a certain degree. Not just hosts — being the “mama” of a bar is a respected profession. It’s not about sex, per se: these bar workers help smooth out social relations. So they are seen as important. I don’t think it’s just “fuuzoku = sexual entertainment.” Instead of going to therapists, the Japanese go have the bar mama listen to their stories. Or uranai fortune-tellers. They are what people use instead of professional therapists.

I think that the men who go drink at those bars want to be comforted. The bar mama may not be young, but she’s really good at listening to people’s stories. There are lots of gay bars, but it’s not like you have to be gay to go there. They go there to get their stories heard. So I don’t think it’s just sex behind this.

Isn’t Dr. Kim’s sex clinic mentioned in the book a kind of prostitution tailored towards women’s needs?

I think Dr. Kim’s service is very unique. I have never heard of anything else like it in Japan. But how is it really? I didn’t follow up and talk to people after they used it. Of the women I met, they would request men for a short amount of time, but they said they stopped using it after a while. You can’t know the real effects unless you did follow up research.

But these men have a sort of “volunteer” spirit — opposed to being gigolos.

But if they didn’t want to do it, they couldn’t. They don’t know these women. And they have to satisfy them everyday. That must be really hard work…

You have a story in the book about a woman who’s into the hanryu Korean boom. Do you think there is a deeper meaning in the current popularity of this culture with older Japanese women?

I don’t know but it’s just something for them to do. They are cute boys, and everyone is having fun screaming at them.

But they are different from Johnny’s Jimusho idols?

I think they are similar. But Koreans seem like the Japanese of old. They are strong and a bit macho. Johnny’s idols lately are a bit neutered. More than “men,” they are “cute” and “pretty.” There are no men in Japan like those in the past. But in Korea, they still have a bit of that old strength. I don’t mean to say that Korea is like an old version of Japan, but they have something that modern Japanese men have lost.

Do you think young Japanese women have been inspired by the previous generations of path-breakers?

I just don’t think there are any good role models for young women. Women who work hard are often viewed as “not so cool” (kakko yoku nai). I mean, there are women in Japan who work hard — like politicians. But people say they don’t look particularly stylish. Others may say “They may be great, but I don’t want to be like them.” Japan just needs to have more “cool women.” For example, Matsuda Seiko continued to be a singer even after getting married and changing men. Things may change more quickly if there were more people like that. But they’re a minority right now. On the other hand, there are quite a few women, especially in the entertainment industry, who go right back to work after having children, so I don’t know.

Right now, it seems like “dekichatta kekkon” (shotgun weddings) are a very visible part of the reason Japanese young people get married. Isn’t that also a sign of passivity towards commitment?

There are a lot of annoying things about getting married, so there are very few people who actively try to get married as fast as possible. Like, “We want to get married at some point, but not now.” Statistically, people are getting married later and that’s why there are less children. But that’s not all women’s fault: it may be because men have stopped wanting to get married. They don’t want to take on the responsibility. They don’t have the confidence.

Why did you choose “Goodbye Madame Butterfly” for the title?

I would have liked a more modern title, rather than a traditional Japanese one. But when you think about what people overseas know about Japanese women, they are not interested unless it’s the traditional Japanese image. Most Westerners — who have never been to Japan — if they are going to ask about Japanese women, they’ll just think, “Isn’t that a country where geishas are?” People with interest in Japan are obviously different, but for those who have never seen real Japanese people, Japan is still the land of geisha and samurai. They won’t read the book if you don’t bring them something traditional to a certain degree. And I mostly wanted that group to read this book.

Even if you think the “traditional Japanese” image is anachronistic, it seems like the Japanese system of marriage today is just the old system intact — but the women’s expectations have changed.

That’s a good point. Japanese systems are really resilient. They seem like they change, but they actually don’t. As much as Japan modernizes, that doesn’t mean that the basic policies completely change.

Was there anything that surprised you when writing this book?

When I set out to write this book, I wanted very “normal” stories. I wanted to write stories just like I would hear when I would have long discussions with my friends. Because that’s the reality I live in. So I didn’t want to focus on very alien things to me, like the sex therapist. To a certain degree, I did put stories like that in the book, but I wanted something really ordinary. When I asked them for their stories, most people said, “I’m really ordinary. Is that interesting?” For me, the stories were very obvious and natural. Any Japanese person who reads the book should feel the same. But there is a lot of drama in the ordinary.

I don’t know if people who live overseas will find these stories normal, but I came to the conclusion after reading this book that Japanese women are very strong. They are not powerful like, “This is me, and I do it this way.” They tend to work their way out of a situation. They persevere. They just want a comfortable life, and they will do anything to keep it. In a way I felt, oh my gosh, these women are really powerful and strong.

But it’s a strength with kind of depressing undertones.

I have been well-educated, have lived overseas, and have been married to a non-Japanese, so I personally believe that women can grasp their own happiness themselves. I don’t think work and happiness are things given to you by your husband.

But the women of the book show a strength that does not fit this form. They have a lot of strength to preserve the most important things. These women never give up — no matter what happens. They will always persevere. “That is my happiness. I will not solve the problems with my husband: I just want to persevere this situation.” In a way, I admire them.

I started Keiji Ashizawa Design around three years ago. After I quit the company where I was working, I was at Super Robot for two years. But since the amount of work coming to me personally started to increase, I decided to just form my own company.

What is your involvement with the Super Robot unit? Are you still involved with them?

I thought that Super Robot was an incredible environment for making things. If I thought, hey, I’d like to make something, I could make it that day, right there. (Hosokawa Tetsuya, Okayasu Izumi, and I made things together.)

Hosokawa is a furniture designer but also a professional in metal-working. (He is an amazing welder.) His skill and experience helped me tremendously, and I think I helped wake him up to his own design spirit. Okayasu was originally just an engineer, but the Super Robot environment helped his talent fully bloom. Right now he is involved with Aoki Jun and Ito Toyo as a first-class lighting designer.

My role at the time was product design and exhibition space design. And I was also in charge of the publicity.

Now everyone has gotten so busy with their own individual work that we aren’t able to do shows as a unit. But we still continue to work as business partners.

Are all your architectural projects based in Tokyo or have you worked elsewhere (either Japan or internationally)?

Most of my work is in Tokyo, but lately I have been doing more out in the countryside — a lot of vacation homes. Also, I am getting more work where I do architectural and interior design for a project in Japan working with foreign designers. I have recently been working with Swiss architects and Australian architects.

What inspires you?

This will sound trite, but lots: films, novels, graphic design. When I was at Super Robot, I would get especially inspired by materials around me, or I would have a flash of inspiration while working. When we’d all be actually putting the work together, Hosokawa would be welding or setting something up, I would just think of things. Now, I am a bit removed from that environment, so I am mostly stimulated by architectural sites and factory visits.

Do you think the city of Tokyo and living in it affect your work?

Tokyo is a city that is always being updated. Even today, on the way to go eat lunch, I discovered a new restaurant and a refurbished building. The atmosphere around my studio has changed greatly over the last three years. A lot of the design in this ever-changing Tokyo is instantly consumed and used up. However, the city is like a living thing and very exciting. It may not be a direct influence, but I think I am inspired, for better or worse.

Do you approach projects differently (architectural project vs. product design)?

Not from a design perspective. I first identify all conditions for realizing the design. If it’s a house, I think about family composition, the shape of the plot, legal matters. If it’s a product, I have more detailed conditions, such as budget and specs for actually producing it. I start by searching for the answers of how to satisfy each condition. In my case, in order to go forward with the design, theoretical thinking is a pillar in the process. With Bar Orange, for example, there was a need to sit lots of people at the bar counter. From that, I decided to install the counter diagonally. If I am able to clear other conditions from deriving that answer, things will naturally reach completion as a strong design.

Do you prefer architectural projects or product design? Which medium gives you the most satisfaction?

Obviously, I have clients for my architecture and interior work. But for most of my product work, I don’t have clients. So I am able to mostly do experimental work. I follow a slightly backwards process, where I win clients from the results of the experimental work. Right now, I have a product I want to make, but I am worried that I won’t be able to concentrate and set aside the time for it. Thinking about product design is a real joy for me because I can control everything myself. For architectural work, on the other hand, I create the work over a long period of time while I control the project amongst the involvement of lots of people. It’s very tough work, but for that very reason, it’s pleasurable. And there’s a sort of expression that can only be done in architecture. So it’s very exciting.

Is there any sort of project — product category or medium — that you have not yet worked on but would like to someday?

I am now finally selling my light fixtures as products, but I think it’d be interesting to make a bit more of these products from here on out. At the same time, I would like to do more work in bigger arenas — out on the global stage. That’s my big hope.

How would you describe your style? What is unique to your various projects?

Well, I think I am an architect. Sometimes I am an engineer or a designer or a construction supervisor. There is a kind of design that only gets created from being seriously involved on many different levels. The Flat Packing pieces and the Parabola Light, for example, were pieces that could only be realized after getting information from workers in the factory. Things I learned about steel at Super Robot came in handy for the 11BOXES project. I think there’s a kind of design that can only be done when you cut across many different genres. But I don’t think there’s a better word than “architect” for what I do.

Is there a close-knit architectural community in Tokyo? If not, do you think one should exist?

It’s not “close-knit,” but there are many “architectural communities.” They’re a bit like lethargic after-school clubs, however, only getting together once in a while. They merely act as information exchange. There is a big organization called Japan Institute of Architects (JIA), but they do not really speak much to society at large. I can’t expect much better activity from a large organization. I think it’d be great if there was a community — developing out from the clubs I mentioned — that could create a real movement from bringing together a loose network of people.

Who is your favorite architect and/or designer? What is it about his/her work that attracts you to it?

Charles & Ray Eames：
Their design led to an evolution in technique as well as progress in design. The Eames House is a one-of-a-kind architectural masterpiece, and the innovation remains fresh even today.

Jean Prouvé:
He was a designer, an artisan, and a man who created a factory in order to attain an ideal design environment. It’s his lifestyle that makes him my hero.

Do you follow many architecture/design sites/blogs?

Yes, I look at lots of blogs. I think this stream of new media is changing Japan’s increasingly-stiff media environment.

What are you currently working on? What’s next?

On the architecture side, I am doing a house and a vacation home. For products, I am at the trial manufacturing stage of a product I hope to sell soon. I also am making two or three new products, and I am thinking about showing them at a design event next year. Looks like I won’t be able to get them done in time for this year’s event.